Q&A - BEHIND THE MASK+NIKAH 映後交流

Question：Could you tell us more about why you were sent to jail?

問：您能詳細講講為什麼會被關進監獄嗎？

Abduweli: 

Everything started because of my first daughter. After she was born in 2005, I was looking for a kindergarten of Uyghur language, but I couldn’t find any. All of the kindergartens were in Chinese. So I thought maybe I should move out of China. At least I could teach her at home.

I took my daughter with me to the United States in 2009. After six months, she lost her language. She couldn’t speak Uyghur anymore. That moment reminded me that tens of thousands of children in Urumqi were losing their mother tongue like my daughter.

So I decided to return to Urumqi and open kindergartens. I opened two: one in Kashgar, because it is a cultural center, and another in Urumqi, the political center. They were very successful. And it created a very influential social movement among the people, which I didn’t mean to.

People started to post online and use the language everywhere in order to promote the mother language, and even asked the Chinese government to use Uyghur language in public affairs. And then, I was in trouble. The government labeled me as the leader of “the mother language movement.” But I wasn’t. I just wanted to have my kindergarten and teach the kids the language from 3 to 6 years old.

Then I was arrested and accused of separatism. Besides, how Bangladesh became (becomes) independent is because of the mother language movement. They said I was doing the same thing as students did in the 1950s.

I was also accused of overthrowing the government, and even accused of being a (being) spy for the CIA. I didn’t even know what the CIA stood for. However, the government thought I was trained by the CIA and sent to Urumqi to create a separate state. That’s not true.

I love our language. It has 1,500 years of written history, with poetry, stories, music, and books. People will love it if they can understand it. I hope Xi Jinping will like it. I don’t understand why the language became a target and why those kids became separatists. But that is what happened to me.

一切是從我的第一個女兒開始的。她在2005年出生後，我開始為她尋找一所使用維吾爾語教學的幼兒園，但我找不到。所有的幼兒園都是用中文教學的。於是我想，也許我應該離開中國，至少可以在家裡教她自己的語言。

2009年，我帶著女兒去了美國。六個月後，她失去了自己的語言，她已經不會說維吾爾語了。那一刻我意識到，在烏魯木齊，有成千上萬的孩子正像我的女兒一樣，正在失去自己的母語。

於是我決定回到烏魯木齊，開設維吾爾語幼兒園。我一共開了兩所：一所在喀什，因為那裡是文化中心；另一所在烏魯木齊，是政治中心。這兩所幼兒園都非常成功。但我沒想到的是，這件事在民間引發了一場極具影響力的社會運動，而這並非我的本意。

人們開始在網路上發聲，在生活中使用維吾爾語，以此推廣母語，甚至呼籲中國政府在公共事務中使用維吾爾語。然後，我就惹上麻煩了。政府將我貼上了「母語運動領袖」的標籤。但事實並非如此。我只是想辦好我的幼兒園，教3到6歲的孩子學習自己的語言。

隨後我被逮捕，並被指控犯下「分裂國家罪」。他們也拿孟加拉的獨立做類比，說孟加拉正是因為母語運動而獨立的，說我在做和20世紀50年代學生一樣的事。我還被指控企圖顛覆國家政權，甚至被指控是中情局的間諜。我當時甚至不知道「CIA」是什麼意思。但政府認為我是被中情局訓練後派回烏魯木齊，企圖建立一個分裂國家。這完全不是真的。

我熱愛我們的語言。它有1500年的書寫歷史，有詩、有故事、有音樂、有書。如果人們能夠真正理解它，就一定會愛上它。我甚至希望習近平也能喜歡它。我不明白，為什麼語言會成為打擊目標，為什麼那些孩子會被當成「分離主義者」。但這就是發生在我身上的事。

Question: Did the former policeman you talked in the documentary have anything to prove he worked in the camp?

問：在紀錄片中的那位前警察，有什麼證據證明他曾在集中營工作過嗎？

Abduweli: 

He worked for Jilin Province, in the northeast of China, for 20 years. He has his police certificates, police uniform and badge with him. He also has documents about cases and how many Uyghurs are arrested. I don’t know how he took out those things. Some papers stating in 2015, 90 Uyghurs were arrested in Harbin. But he allowed us only to view them, not copy or take photos.

他在中國東北的吉林省工作了20年。他隨身帶著警官證、警服和警徽，還有一些關於案件的文件，包括被抓捕的維吾爾人的數量。我不知道他是如何把這些東西帶出來的。一些文件顯示，2015年在哈爾濱有90名維吾爾人被逮捕。但他只允許我們查看這些資料，不允許複製或拍照。

Question: Do you know why the policeman decided to tell the truth? Because he is the only policeman who told the truth. It’s important to explore why he decided to.

問：您知道他為什麼決定說出真相嗎？畢竟他是唯一公開發聲的警察，了解為什麼非常重要。

Abduweli:

I think his motivation is to seek asylum in Germany in 2020. If he spoke to the media, it could help him get asylum papers. He extremely wanted to have the asylum paper. As he has been living in such a messy place. I have never seen that dirty place in my life. I can't even find a place to sit that that's that's messy. So he wanted to solve his case as soon as possible.  

On the other hand, everyone wants to be a good person; no one wants to be evil. My positive thinking is he is still seeking those people who were tortured or had trouble before. I’m looking for him actually and I want him to watch the film, be frankly and tell the truth. Let us know what he has done and how he tortured peopleAnother interesting thing is, he asked me whether I had ever tortured people. He stuck with this kind of question again and again like does German police tortured prisoners?

He didn’t understand and couldn’t t accept that police should not torture the prisoners. He said how could it be possible if you don’t torture prisoners, how do you make them confess？

I said of course, there are a lot of ways to confess people what they have done, and you don’t have to torture. You are living in Germany, you should accept this. I hope he can understand, like understand a normal thing such as eating and drinking.

我認為他的動機之一是為了在2020年申請德國的政治庇護。如果他對媒體發聲，可能會對他的庇護申請有幫助。他非常迫切地想拿到庇護身份，因為他一直住在一個非常混亂的地方。我從來沒見過一個如此髒亂的地方，我甚至沒有地方下腳。所以，他非常希望盡快解決自己的問題。

另一方面，每個人都希望自己是個好人，沒有人願意成為作惡的人。從正面的角度看，我覺得他仍然在尋找那些曾經被折磨、遭遇不公平的人。其實我一直在找他，我希望他能看這部電影，坦誠地說出真相，讓我們知道他做過什麼、他是如何折磨人的。

還有一件很有趣的事是，他反覆問我：「你有沒有折磨過別人？」他一遍又一遍地問，甚至問：「德國警察難道不折磨犯人嗎？」他無法理解、也無法接受警察不該折磨囚犯。他問我：“如果你不折磨他們，怎麼讓他們招供？”

我告訴他，當然有很多方式可以讓人承認他們所做的事情，不一定要透過折磨。你住在德國，就應該接受這一點。我希望他能理解這一點，就像理解吃飯、喝水這樣再正常不過的事情一樣。

Question:How long did you film with this police officer, and why were you unable to contact him afterward?

問：您們和這個警察拍攝了多長時間？為什麼後來聯絡不上他了？

Abduweli: 

Our team was planning to shoot for 2 or 3 days. But we only shot for 2 hours and were asked to stop. And he said: I don’t want to talk anymore. And he didn't even tell me the reason. He just stopped. From my imagination, he couldn't bear to listen to me because my experience of tortured camp reminded him of what he had done to those people. So he just turned off his phone and disappeared. 

I hope to find him because I hope he to watch the film and have some release, to feel that what he has done is not acceptable. Because it was a crime, and he should at least accept that it is not just a simple process. There are human beings in front of you, with families, kids and lives like yours. I hope he will accept that what he has done was a crime.

我們團隊原計劃是去拍2-3天，但是只拍了兩個小時，就被叫停了。後來他說：「我不想再談了。」但他沒有告訴我原因，就這樣突然中斷了聯繫。我猜他無法承受繼續聽我講述，因為我在集中營遭受的經歷，讓他想起了自己曾經對那些人做過的事情。於是他關掉了手機，從此消失了。

我仍然希望能找到他，因為我希望他能看這部電影，得到某種釋放，意識到他所做的事情是不可接受的。那是一種犯罪，他至少應該承認，這不是一個簡單的「工作流程」。你面前的是一個有家庭、有孩子、有生命的人，和你一樣的人。我希望他能夠接受這個事實。

Question: You say he's just not answering anymore. Or could it be that he really disappeared? And maybe not by himself, but, something from a higher power? 

問：您是說他只是再也沒有回應了？有沒有可能他真的「消失」了，而且並非出於自願，而是某種更高層力量？

Abduweli: 

His last message said his lost work. He kept telling me that I’m not the one who was torturing you and arrested you.” I didn’t say that and I know he is not the one. But he just kept telling me “I'm not the one” again and again.

I told him I didn't do anything to him and I wouldn't do anything. He emotionally feels it is really hard to accept. But it’s important to accept reality and tell more about the truth. He stated a period that Chinese government arrested people door to door, not because of those people had done or say something. At that time, he was the one who arrested them door by door. He should tell the truth.

Psychologically, speaking out will help him to face people like me because he is hiding what he has done and hiding himself and his pain. It will torture him again and again.

他最後一封訊息說自己失業了。他不斷地對我說：「不是我折磨你的，也不是我逮捕你的。」我從來沒有這樣指責他，我也清楚他不是那個人。但他卻一遍又一遍地重複：“不是我，不是我。”

我告訴他，我不會對他做任何事情，也沒有打算做什麼。但他在情感上非常難以接受現實。然而，接受現實、說出更多真相是非常重要的。他自己也提到一個時期，中國政府挨家挨戶抓人，並不是因為這些人做了什麼或說了什麼，而他正是當時執行抓捕的人之一。他應該把真相說出來。

從心理角度來說，說出真相會幫助他面對像我這樣的人。因為現在，他在隱藏自己做過的事情，也在隱藏自己和自己的痛苦。這種隱瞞會一再折磨他。

Question: How is the situation of your family?

問：您家人的情況現在怎麼樣？

Abduweli: 

Regarding family, I always feel sorry for my family members. As I said to them, we always pay the price for our choice. What am I doing is my choice. It shouldn’t be their problem. 

I feel sorry especially for my daughter. I got arrested in 2013 when she was seven years old, and I stayed away for 458 days. She always feels I ruined her childhood and reacts strongly. She said “You are not here when I was young. You’re not here for me.” So that 15 months ruined her childhood. I can not tell her it wasn’t that long honey, because for her, it is different.

It's really hard that the one who loves you will pay the price. That’s the reality that we’re doing things to save people but we can’t guarantee the safety of our family members. 

Many people who spoke up, even in places like France, had family members arrested, disappeared, or killed. For example, my niece died in prison because of what others did outside. It is really hard, but we must continue. Nothing will change if someone doesn’t act. Someone must take action, and that one is me. My family members are in danger and paying a price, and I try to work all the time to prevent them from trouble because of me.

說到家人，我一直對他們感到非常愧疚。正如我對他們說的那樣，我們總是要為自己的選擇付出代價。我所做的一切是我自己的選擇，不應該由他們來承擔後果。

我尤其對我的女兒感到愧疚。我在2013年被捕，那時她才七歲，我離開了她458天。她一直覺得我毀了她的童年，反應非常強烈。她對我說：「你在我小時候不在我身邊，你不屬於我。」那15個月毀了她的童年。我無法對她說“其實也沒那麼久”，因為對她來說，時間的感受完全不同。

最痛苦的是，愛你的人會為你的選擇付出代價。這就是現實：我們在努力拯救他人，卻無法保證家人的安全。

很多敢於發聲的人，即便是在法國這樣的地方，他們的家人也被逮捕、失踪，甚至被殺害。例如，我的姪女就因為外面的人所做的事情，死在監獄裡了。這真的非常殘酷，但我們必須繼續。如果沒有人站出來，什麼都不會改變。總是要有人行動，那個人就是我。我的家人正在為此付出代價，我也一直努力工作，盡量避免他們因為我而遭受更多危險。

Question: Do you know what are the reasons that people are arrested there?

問：您知道到底是什麼原因導致人們被抓嗎？

Abduweli: I think human beings always want to find reasons, because we are reasonable animals. We try to understand why this is happening. Because they believe there is no reason behind it. If we can say there is a reason for this situation, it is to eliminate differences. 

The region is huge, about 1.6 million square kilometers, rich in oil and natural gas. Chinese Communist Party wants the land, the resources and the control, but they don’t want the people who speak a different language. That is a threat to them. Maybe it is human nature. We always feel threaten if we meet someone who is different. Maybe it is the nature of the communist party and authoritarian regimes. Maybe it is colonialism. 

There are many explanations. In my case, people can say there was a “reason”. But for example, my sister, a high school geography teacher, was arrested. What’s the reason? And my niece, she was studying biotechnology at the University of Tokyo. She returned to Shanghai in June 2019. She was arrested and later died in prison. What is the reason? There is no reason. They didn’t promote the language or write books like me. Some of them even worked for the CCP. Like my elder brother, he was a Communist Party member working in a local branch. Therefore, it is really hard to tell what is the reason for those people’s prosecution.

If people know the reason, they can try to avoid the pressure and prosecution. That’s the problem right now. You can not name the reason so there is no way to keep safe. 

I collect stories from Uyghur people. I asked what people are using, and what is popular in Uyghur language there right now. One very common saying among them is: “We don’t know which will come first—tomorrow or death.”

我認為人類總是想要尋找原因，因為我們是理性的動物。我們想理解為什麼會發生這樣的事情。但事實上，這一切本身並沒有理由。如果一定要說有一個“原因”，那就是為了消除差異。

那個地區非常遼闊，面積約160萬平方公里，蘊藏豐富的石油和天然氣資源。中國共產黨想要土地、資源和控制權，但他們不想要那些說不同語言的人，因為那對他們來說是一種威脅。也許這是人性：當我們面對不同的人時，就會感到威脅。也許這是共產黨和威權政權的本性，也許這是一種殖民主義。

解釋有很多。在我身上，人們或許還能說出一個「理由」。但比如說，我的姊姊是高中地理老師，她被抓了，理由是什麼？我的姪女在東京大學學習生物技術，2019年6月回到上海，隨後被逮捕並死在監獄中，理由又是什麼？

根本沒有理由。他們沒有像我一樣推廣語言、寫書，有些人甚至為中共工作。例如我的哥哥，他是共產黨員，在地方機構任職。所以，很難說清楚這些人究竟為什麼會被迫害。如果人們知道原因，至少還能試圖避開風險。但現在的問題是：你無法說出原因，也無從自保。

我收集了很多維吾爾人的故事。我問他們現在在用什麼、什麼在當地的維吾爾環境中最受歡迎。有一句話被反覆提到：“我們不知道，明天和死亡，哪個會先到來。”

Question: Talking about separatism reminds me of my friend Tara Yadi ZHANG who tried to promote dialogue and understanding between Han Chinese and Tibetan, but she was arrested and later charged with crimes like “inciting separatism.”I still thinking why the CCP must have this crime. They invest a lot in propaganda and control. Do you think weather it’s a characteristic of the CCP, or a characteristic of totalitarian regimes?

問：談到“分裂主義”，我想起我的朋友Tara張雅迪，她曾試圖推動漢族與藏族之間的對話與理解，但後來被捕，並被指控“煽動分裂國家罪”。我一直在想，為什麼中共一定要設立這樣的罪名？他們在宣傳和控制上投入了大量資源。您認為這是中共的特性，還是所有極權體制的共通性？

Abduweli: 

I don’t think this is the characteristic of the communist party. For example, there are communist parties in countries like Norway, and they are not the same. There is nothing to do with ideology.

There are different explanations. Some people explain it as totalitarianism. Some scholars explain it through colonialism. All of these explanations exist. I think it is more about the regime itself.

In countries like France, the system allows criticism, and through criticism the system can correct itself. But there are some systems that you cannot criticize like some religions. And their mechanism cannot correct themselves. The Chinese Communist Party is one of those systems. The Soviet Communist Party was the same.

And how did the re-education system started? It started in the Soviet Union around 1937. At that time, some Soviet scholars believed that the genome of people and animals can be changed through reeducation. They created this ideology and Stalin accepted it. He put people into labor camps, trying to change them through labor. That’s why in Soviet Union, they called labor camps.

But now, the Chinese government’s strategy is to transform people through culture. In the government’s mind, that is “Chinese culture.” That is why people are forced to learn Chinese—not only modern Chinese, but also classical Chinese. Even kindergarten children need to recite poems written a thousand years ago like Song dynasty.

So the government wants to not only change ideology, but also change ethnicity through the re-education system. In some ways, labor camps are easier for people. If you work, you get tired and you can sleep. But if you study something you don’t want for 16 hours a day, it is more problematic and troublesome.

When I was there, sometimes I had to sit from 6:30 a.m until 10 p.m, in front of a screen, listening to the propaganda. I actually preferred to labor, because time passes faster when you work. Sitting still for 16 hours is killing you. I preferred to suffer Stalin’s way, which at least made you sleep well. Study what you don’t like again and again will torture you more than you think. You couldn’t sleep at night.

What is happening now to Uyghur is both: the government forces them to work and wants them to become someone else, to become Chinese in 2 or 3 years. How can it be possible?

我不認為這是共產主義意識形態本身的特性。例如在挪威也有共產黨，它們並不一樣。這與意識形態無關。解釋有很多。有些人用極權主義來解釋，有些學者從殖民主義角度來分析。我認為關鍵在於政權本身。

在法國這樣的國家，制度允許批評，並且可以透過批評進行自我修正。但也有一些體係是不能被批評的，就像某些宗教，它們缺乏自我糾錯機制。中國共產黨就是這樣的體系，蘇聯共產黨當年也是如此。

再教育制度是如何開始的？它起源於1937年前後的蘇聯。當時一些蘇聯學者認為，透過再教育可以改變人和動物的基因結構。史達林接受了這種思想，把人送進勞改營，試圖透過勞動來改造他們。這也是為什麼在蘇聯，那些地方被稱為「勞動營」。而現在，中國政府的策略是透過文化來改造人。在他們的認知中，那就是「中華文化」。所以人們被迫學習中文，不只是現代漢語，還有古典漢語，甚至連幼兒園的孩子都要背誦上千年前宋代的詩詞。

因此，政府不僅想改變意識形態，還想透過再教育體系改變族群認同。從某種程度上說，勞動營更容易承受：幹完活，人會疲憊，也能睡覺。但如果每天16小時學習你根本不想學的東西，那種折磨就會更加嚴重。

我在裡面的時候，有時從早上6點半一直坐到晚上10點，面對螢幕聽宣傳。我反而更願意去勞動，因為勞動時時間過得更快。連續坐16小時幾乎要把人摧毀。我甚至覺得史達林的方式至少還能讓人睡個好覺。反覆學習你厭惡的東西，對人的折磨遠超想像，晚上根本無法入睡。

現在維吾爾人所遭遇的，是兩種方式並存：政府既強迫他們勞動，又試圖在兩三年內把他們「變成中國人」。這怎麼可能？

Question: You mentioned that you lost contact with the police officer and that you have no opportunity to have a dialogue. It also seems impossible to have a dialogue with the Chinese government or even with parts of the Han Chinese community abroad. Do you think there are ways to create dialogue without being accused of being a terrorist or an oppressor? Are there any useful new ways to build such communication?

問：您提到您已經失去了與那位警察對話的可能，而與中國政府，甚至與海外部分漢人社群的對話似乎也同樣困難。您認為是否存在一種不被指控為「恐怖分子」或「壓迫者」的對話方式？是否有新的溝通路徑？

Abduweli: 

That’s a really good and important question. You didn’t ask the question but I always expect people to ask: what’s the hope.I always want to talk about hope—because we shouldn’t only tell sad stories all the time. 

In 2022, there was a fire in Urumqi where 44 people were burned to death at their home. Because of that fire, Chinese people inside China and around the world stood up. Eventually the 2-year lockdown was ended and Chinese got their freedom. I think it’s still hint for me. If Chinese people learn what happened to those Uyghur, to those kids, they will speak up. The fire and oppression remind people that we are all in the same boat.That’s why it’s so important to share what’s happening to Uyghur—especially with Chinese audiences. If we are eliminated, you will be the second ones. And we all will have trouble in the end. So it’s important to communicate and have a dialogue between Uyghurs and Chinese people. If we have the hope, the hope is the dialogue. We are only about 12 million people. How can we change the system or the regime alone? We need to tell, face and share with 1.4 billion people about what’s happening.

This is my second time speaking directly to a Chinese-speaking audience, and I want to continue. I want to share and to have conversations more—maybe just like picnics or conferences together. 

Uyghurs, Tibetans or Mongolians, we’re always minorities in the society, and we are not the changing force. I see you are, the Chinese speakers, the changing force of the system and the oppressive region. No one will pop up to gather us. We are the ones to do it. I trust the people around me. We will be together and do more. That is the hope for the future. Thank you!

這是一個非常重要的問題。雖然你沒有直接問，但我一直希望有人問：希望在哪裡？我總是想談希望，因為我們不能永遠只講悲傷的故事。

2022年，烏魯木齊發生了一場大火，44人在家中被活活燒死。正是那場火災，讓中國境內和海外的許多中國人站了出來。最終，持續兩年的封控結束了，中國人重新獲得了一定程度的自由。這件事對我來說仍然是一種啟示。如果中國人真正了解維吾爾人、那些孩子所經歷的一切，他們也會站出來。那場火災和持續的壓迫提醒我們：我們其實在同一條船上。

因此，把維吾爾人正在經歷的事情講出來，尤其是講給中國人聽，至關重要。如果我們被消滅了，下一個就是你們，最終所有人都會陷入困境。

所以，維吾爾人與中國人之間的溝通與對話非常重要。如果說還有希望，那希望就在對話中。我們只有大約1200萬人，怎麼可能單獨改變一個體制？我們必須把正在發生的事情講出來，面對並分享給14億人。

這是我第二次直接對中文觀眾講話，我希望能繼續下去。我希望能多分享、交流，也許只是一起野餐，或是一起開會。維吾爾人、藏人、蒙古人，在社會中始終是少數，我們不是推動改變的主力。而我看到的是你們──中文世界的人，才是改變體制、改變壓迫現實的力量。不會有人突然出現來組織我們，只能靠自己。我信任身邊的人，我們會站在一起，做更多的事。這就是我對未來的希望。謝謝。

Question: Can you share the story of making the film NIKHA?

問：可以分享一下電影《NIKHA》的創作過程嗎？

Bastien Ehouzan: This project has been with us for many years. Ten years ago, I met the director Mukaddas, and at that time she was already willing to make a film. Around 2016, we started to be involved in the process, just trying to make the film happen.

She wanted to talk about her own situation, a Uyghur woman. At that time, she was living in France and had been there for several years. She was a doctor in musicology. At that time, she was still going back and forth to the region to do research and to see her family. When we met, the film was meant to be very intimate story about being a Uyghur woman, what would happen to her and what she wants to do.

In 2017, we were trying to make that film, but things happened. I saw the fear and she understood that she couldn’t go back. It became more and more complicated. The news coming from her home was very threatening and awful. That is why we started a new process for the film, knowing that we would not be able to shoot in the region anymore.

So we went to Central Asia. We looked for places where we could shoot and for people who could appear in the film. What happened there is part of the story of the film itself. 

The fear was always with us even when we were shooting in Central Asia. Because we had actresses who are from Norway and Sweden the Netherlands, and Uzbekistan. All of them were very brave and courageous to participate. At the first casting, there was one girl who felt it would be too dangerous to travel with us. Because she only had a student visa, and the place we shot was so close to the Chinese border. She may had risk there.

這個項目已經伴隨我們很多年了。十年前，我認識了導演Mukaddas，那時她就已經有拍電影的想法。大約在2016年，我們開始真正參與進來，只是想讓這部電影得以實現。

她想講述的是她自己的處境——作為一名維吾爾女性。當時她已經在法國生活了好幾年，是一名音樂學博士。那時候，她仍然會頻繁往返於那片地區，進行研究並探望家人。我們最初設想的，是一部非常私密的電影，講述一名維吾爾女性的生活、她將面臨什麼、她想要怎樣的未來。

但到了2017年，一切都改變了。我看到了她的恐懼，她也意識到自己再也回不去了。事情變得越來越複雜，從家鄉傳來的消息充滿威脅和恐怖。因此，我們不得不啟動一個新的創作方向，接受無法再回到那片土地拍攝的現實。

於是我們前往中亞，尋找可以拍攝的地點和合適的演員。而在那裡發生的一切，也成為了電影故事的一部分。恐懼始終伴隨著我們，即便是在中亞拍攝時也是如此。因為參與演出的女演員來自挪威、瑞典、荷蘭和烏茲別克斯坦，她們都非常勇敢。在第一次選角時，有一位女孩認為跟隨我們出行風險太大，因為她只有學生簽證，而拍攝地又非常靠近中國邊境，她擔心會有危險。

Questions: How did you develop the script and did the film encounter any difficulties in shooting and releasing?

問：劇本是如何發展的？拍攝發行過程中遇到了哪些困難？

Bastien Ehouzan:

The story is based on real cases and stories. One was about a Uyghur woman who was studying in France but engaged with a Uyghur man in China. And she had to go back to marry a Uyghur guy and be a good Uyghur woman. This is the first step of the film. 

The project developed over years. In 2017 especially, people were knowing without knowing—like there is a storm and thunder in the sky but you don’t know it. The threat is here but you don’t know what will happen .

I feel this story can also be my story because it’s about surveillance and totalitarianism. It now happens in Uyghur, and it maybe also can happen in France, if people are not careful. So we had to be aware of what we would film and be as community. I said to Mukaddas Let’s make the film together and make it bigger. We make the script telling people facing threats and choices but in a situation of not knowing what really goes on.

In 2019, we shot in Central Asia. Even there are Uyghur diaspora trying to set up in the country for a long time. But the country was also like “what are you doing here? What are you French people and French crew are doing here with some Uyghur people?” We had to be very fast. We shot everything in just 12 days. The trouble was there but we did it.

The film was completed in 2022. After finishing, we hoped the film would have some exposure and visibility in festivals but it didn’t happen. The film was not shown for almost one year. In a way, we thought there might be some soft power or something. 

Then day by day, step by step, some festivals, TVs and broadcasts were coming, and a lot of universities as well. The director is also making efforts to promote the film.

故事取材自真實案例。其中一個原型是一位在法國留學的維吾爾女性，她與中國的一名維吾爾男性訂婚，卻被迫回國結婚，成為一個「合格的維吾爾女性」。這是電影的起點。

這個項目在多年中逐漸發展。尤其是在2017年，人們處於一種「知道又不知道」的狀態，就像天空中有風暴和雷聲，卻不知道它何時會真正降臨。威脅已經存在，但你無法預知後果。

我覺得這個故事某種程度上也是我的故事，因為它講的是監控與極權。今天它發生在維吾爾人身上，明天如果人們不警惕，也可能發生在法國。正因如此，我們在拍攝時非常謹慎，並努力形成一個共同體。我對Mukaddas說：「我們一起把這部電影做得更大。」我們希望電影講述的是在未知中面臨威脅與抉擇的人們。

2019年，我們在中亞完成拍攝。儘管當地長期有維吾爾離散群體定居，但當局仍然質疑：「你們這些法國人，為什麼和一群維吾爾人出現在這裡？」我們必須爭分奪秒，整個拍攝僅用了12天。困難重重，但我們完成了。

電影在2022年完成。完成之後，我們原本希望影片能在影展中獲得曝光，增加可見度，但現實並不順利。這部電影幾乎一年都沒有公開放映。某種程度上，我們甚至懷疑是否存在某種「軟性阻力」。但隨著時間推移，電影逐漸進入一些影展、電視頻道和大學放映。導演本人也持續努力推廣這部作品。